The Mewtwo vs Shadow QnA Blog

 

(How Pokemon fans see the match)

(How Sonic fans see the match)

Strunton: Disclaimer. This does not reflect the opinions of everyone that contributed to the Mewtwo vs Shadow blog. These are my opinions and you’re free to disagree with them. I’m aware that there are a lot of ways someone can tackle this match and what you decide to give them entirely depends on you. I know that there will never be a consensus on what Mewtwo and Shadow should be allowed to have in a fight. Hopefully, this blog will expand upon the decisions that were made and why the blog turned out how it did. Also, if I don’t specify Archie, assume that I am referring to game Shadow. With that out of the way, let’s begin.

Do you think Mewtwo scales to the Creation Trio?

Personally, yes. I think the arguments for the strongest versions of Mewtwo scaling to be better than the ones that say he doesn’t. I understand that saying Mewtwo, or really most Pokemon, squaring up to the Creation Trio sounds ridiculous from a casual and narrative viewpoint but…I mean, it happened. I don’t know what else can really be said. Is it silly? Yeah, but you can’t really take away that there’s Pokemon that have fought the Creation Trio. Heck, Mewtwo was created to be the strongest Pokemon in an era where the world had hands on data and experience with the Creation Trio. Just saying.

Also like, at worst, I don’t really see what would contradict the idea of a trained Mewtwo being able to put up a fight against the Creation Trio when other trainers like Cynthia can do it. Other trainers like Ethan also battle Pokemon with the Creation Trio as well. It would be weird for Mewtwo to be considered a superboss for Ethan if Ethan secretly just steamrolled him with the Creation Trio, but I digress.

Wouldn’t Miracle Eye remove Shadow’s resistance to Mewtwo’s haxes?

This was a question that came up during the debate. Personally, I don’t think there’s a clear answer to this but I want to say…probably not, at least not the ones that matter. As far as I’m aware, Dark-type Pokemon are not immune to Hypnosis, similar to how Ghost-type aren’t immune to Roar and Flying-type aren’t immune to Sand Attack. Miracle Eye likely removes resistances to attack moves, not status moves, so I’m not sure it would remove Shadow’s resistance to mind control or petrification. Even then, technically speaking, Mewtwo’s mind control and petrification are technically things Mewtwo only does in the anime, not the games. I’m pretty sure we can’t just say that Miracle Eye can remove resistances to abilities that aren’t performed in that continuity. That would be like me saying that Chaos Control can warp people out of existence in the games because it can do that in Archie.

Shadow’s been mind controlled multiple times. What do you mean he resists Mewtwo’s brainwashing?

I’m not saying there isn’t a possibility that Mewtwo could control Shadow’s mind. I just think that it’s more likely for him to resist it more times than not. He resisted Black Doom’s mind control, and the Chaos Emeralds both restored his memories and negated the brainwashing effects of the Otherworldification. Super forms in general are straight up immune to it.

Many instances of Shadow being mind controlled are not canon. Boom isn’t canon, Chronicles isn’t canon, and Archie isn’t canon. But even if we did factor in those continuities, the Chaos Emeralds weren’t at play during those instances, and both the games and Archie establish that they can negate brainwashing.

Would Speed Swap work?

If Mewtwo was able to get it off in time, probably. It works on Mega Evolutions, so it would probably work on Super Shadow. Would it work on Shadow if he released his Inhibitor Rings or stacked Hero Mode or Dark Mode on top of his super state? No clue.

Even if Speed Swap did work, I don’t know if it would be enough to change the results on its own. If you agree that Mewtwo and Shadow are relative in speed, then swapping speed wouldn’t do much for obvious reasons. If Shadow blitzes, then he would likely blitz Mewtwo before he could pull it off. You would have to rank Mewtwo higher than Shadow in strength and endurance for Speed Swap to do something. Not to mention that Mewtwo only knows Speed Swap via TM, which uh…yeah. I’m well aware most don’t think Mewtwo should have those.

Aren’t the anime, manga, and games canon to each other? What’s wrong with cross scaling their feats?

…No. They’re obviously different canons. I’m well aware Masuda said in an interview that the games aren’t created with canon in mind but…ok? Why does that translate to “so that means the anime and manga are 100% canon to the games?” You have characters that have vastly different backstories and motivations. You can very easily look up a list of the differences between all Pokemon media and see they’re not one to one. I’m not saying I have an issue with including alternate media like the manga or anime, but I do think it is kind of weird to treat them like they’re all the same canon when they aren’t.

“But Masuda considers the anime to be an extension of the games because it showcases things that can’t be shown in the games.”

Sonic Speed Simulator, X, SatAM, and even Archie are all canon because they’re considered to be “extensions of the games.” I feel like you would need more to argue they are 100% the same canon. Now to give credit where credit is due, Pokemon is an infinite multiverse so could you just argue that the anime or manga are just another universe in the main canon? Uh, sure I guess, but nothing currently supports that idea. 

Shadow Evolved scales to Super Sonic level feats?

He at least scales to the feats that matter. Devil Doom back in Shadow 05 was portrayed to be a super sonic level threat. Even while actively fighting Super Shadow, Eggman questions if he’s invincible and advises Shadow to aim for his eye. If Shadow was mopping the floor with him, this interaction wouldn’t make sense. Of course, in Sonic x Shadow Generations, Shadow Evolved beats Devil Doom and Neo Devil Doom, so the scaling chain is there.

Do you think canon Sonic is multi+?

I believe Super Sonic is some degree of multiversal, but I personally would like to wait for more concrete evidence about his multiverse containing infinite universes. I know Tails speculates that there are infinite universes and I’m sure he knows what he’s talking about, but it is currently only a theory, so I would like to not rely on this. Even Ian said that Tails’ theory is…well, a theory, and that we shouldn’t take it at face value until something official confirms it. But hey, I expect Sonic Crossworlds to confirm it so yeet.

Do you think canon Sonic is immeasurable?

I don’t think the arguments are terrible, but I personally want something a little stronger. I don’t think attacking Solaris should automatically mean that Sonic 100% has to have had those kinds of speeds to harm him. There isn’t much of an explanation for how the hedgehogs were able to attack him, so I think you can make a lot of explanations that make just as much sense as saying they needed immeasurable speeds to do it. Maybe hitting Solaris’ core in general just hurts him across all points in time? Maybe the hedgehogs can just have the ability to hurt him across all points in time or ignore the omnipresence because they’re just built differently? Maybe they can just do it just because. I personally just want something a little more concrete before saying he can roll around at immeasurable speeds of sound.

But hey, if you wanna argue Solaris destroyed areas that technically are stated to be infinite is enough tho, go for it. I won’t stop you.

Wait, you’re ok with using Sonic Speed Simulator?

No. I’m really not. I think Speed Simulator is only ok for supporting evidence at best. For example, Speed Simulator supports the idea that Neo Metal Sonic’s super form is relative to Super Sonic (shocking claim, I know). Obviously, SEGA would’ve had to have approved of the idea of him battling Super Sonic, and there’s other things in canon to back it up. Using it as the main evidence for a stance though is not something I’m okay with at this time.

Ian has said more than once that Speed Simulator is not canon. I’m aware there’s a Discord screenshot of a developer saying SEGA considers it canon, but as someone who’s been screenshotted and had that screenshot manipulated to make it look like I said something that I really didn’t say, I can’t say that I trust that being reliable evidence. If Nibroc-Rock makes this comment on Twitter or something then…maybe I’ll consider it.

Can you explain Shadow’s counter to Disable again? I’m a little confused.

The Doom Zone disables Shadow’s Chaos Control in Sonic x Shadow Generations. This happens when you enter the Doom Zone during Space Colony Ark, Rail Canyon, Sunset Heights, and Radical Highway. If you activate the Doom Zone in White Space, it also disables Chaos Control. We don’t think it's a coincidence that this happens every time Shadow enters a realm that bends to Black Doom’s will. We also know Shadow’s Chaos Control was also likely disabled because he was frozen in Devil Doom’s Chaos Control for a brief moment. If it wasn’t disabled, he would’ve never been frozen to begin with. He should’ve been unaffected, similar to how Metal Overlord wasn’t affected by it.

Shadow Evolved eventually grows powerful enough to restore the ability against Neo Devil Doom. Also, if we did decide to factor in Archie, Shadow used the emeralds to restore his Chaos Control after it was disabled by Feist and Eclipse.

Why did Shadow get Archie anyway?

As I mentioned before, there are a lot of arguments about what Mewtwo and Shadow should receive in their composites. Many people argue that if you give Mewtwo everything, Shadow should receive the same treatment because his Archie counterpart is no different from his canon counterpart and is closer to canon than some versions of Mewtwo, like Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. To cover all grounds, we decided both characters should just get everything. Truth be told, it probably wouldn’t have mattered what we gave them because someone would’ve accused the blog of slanting things in one person’s favor anyway. If we restricted Shadow to just the games or restricted Mewtwo from having Shadow Mewtwo or something, it wouldn’t have made a difference. It’s just the nature of the matchup.

With that said though, most people that voted in the verdict did not factor Archie into the equation anyway. It was decided by what they personally believed should’ve been included, and which person they believed was more likely to win.

You can’t give Shadow Archie. It makes Shadow stronger than his canon counterpart.

I’m fine with people not giving Shadow Archie. I’m not trying to advocate that he should get it, but I don’t think this is the way to go about it. It does somewhat come off as hypocritical. It’s weird that this is a common argument Mewtwo’s side makes despite them trying to use alternate canons to give Mewtwo a buff in stats that doesn’t exist in the games.

I think the better way to approach this is to just argue that you don’t think Mewtwo needs a full composite to beat Shadow or something.

It’s cool you guys put in the effort to analyze all versions of Shadow, but wouldn’t DEATH BATTLE make the rematch Game Shadow vs Composite Mewtwo?

Anything could happen.

No seriously. How do you think DEATH BATTLE would handle this match?

If I had to take a guess, Mewtwo would probably be given the games, anime, manga, and maybe TCG. Mewtwo probably wouldn’t be given PMD or Shadow Mewtwo. Shadow would probably get the games, Chronicles, and X. He probably wouldn’t get Archie.

If that were the case, who do you think would win?

I think Mewtwo vs Shadow just comes down to Solaris vs the Creation Trio scaling. If AP was relative, I think Shadow would win. Not only would blitz Mewtwo, but he resists most of the game ending haxes, and Mewtwo has no answer to Chaos Control. If you think Mewtwo AP stomps and Shadow doesn’t have a hax that defeats him, then Mewtwo would likely just outlast Shadow long enough to get a killing blow.

Where’s Boom Shadow?

His shoddy craftsmanship brings shame on all hedgehogkind. And for that, he perished.

Where’s Fleetway Shadow?

Fleetway Shadow is literal fanfiction. And all things considered, there’s no way Fleetway Shadow would ever be considered in a Shadow composite. He’s nothing like game Shadow. Man is a clone of Sonic created by the Drakon Empire. Yeah…

Did you have fun?

There were a few bumps here and there, but overall it was fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine. It could’ve been so much worse. Glad it was debatable at least.