Predicition Blog: 2B vs Alita (NieR: Automata vs Battle Angel Alita)
(Strunton)
(Kaiser)
(Flip)
(Mau)
(Mau)
(Serge)
“Your body may be a machine… but your heart is human.”
-Solid Snake
Introduction
In the distant future, the line between man and machine has been blurred. These two deadly cybernetic fighters were born to fight, but their self reflection and emotions reveal that the essence of what it means to be human lies deeper than what their synthetic bodies would seem to suggest.
2B, the elegant but lethal YoRHa android
Alita, the sweet but fierce Battle Angel
Today these fight in a battle to determine who reigns supreme in the realm of robotic combat. Will 2B return Alita to the scrap heap and show there's nothing nier her power? Or will Alita show 2B what her indomitable will is capable of and gunnm down her opponent? Let's find out now who would win a DEATH BATTLE!
Before We Start…
As those of you familiar with Battle Angel Alita may know, Alita has been upgraded to many bodies over the course of the series, each with their own unique strengths and weaknesses. For this analysis, we will be focusing mostly on Alita’s Imaginos bodies, with just a smidgen of mentioning/compositing of the other bodies. We're doing this because we want to be using the characters at their strongest and this is probably the strongest Alita body (at least until Mars Chronicles says otherwise). We're also not using cross scaling (Final Fantasy, Soul Calibur etc) for Nier for obvious reasons, but that being said, cross scaling between different Yoko Taro games is fine as long as the scaling chain exists between 2B and those characters.
Background
2B
In the year 11945 AD, humanity is on the brink of extinction. A race of barely sentient machine lifeforms have overrun Earth and humanity calls upon a race of sentient androids named the YoRHa units to fight against them. One of the most impressive of these androids is 2B, an android who is sent down to earth with hacker 9S to fight waves of the evil machine lifeforms and get to the bottom of their existence. During her journey she encounters two machine-created but android-like lifeforms named Adam and Eve, who grow stronger as their journey progresses, ending in a destructive climax that leads to 2B gaining a deeper understanding of the machine lifeforms.
In reality, there was more to 2B than met the eye. Her pairing with 9S was not coincidental. In reality, she was picked alongside him because she, along with the other YoRHa units, were hiding a dark secret about the truth of humanity, and she was the only one capable of killing and resetting 9S’s memories every time he came close to discovering the truth due to his mysterious attachment to her. After the 49th time 9S discovers the truth however, the planet is overrun by hostile machinery, and 2B loses her life to them. After which, 9S is free to unravel the dark secrets that haunt this world.
Alita
In the year ES 370 during the civil wars of Mars, a young woman named Nollin Sonann was infected by an aggressive form of teratoma known as the Maske Tumor. This disease mutated her body and created multiple fully developed heads with fully developed brains. While these heads couldn’t survive on their own without being attached to a human host, one of these tumors was successfully extracted from Nollin’s body and was given a mechanical body. This cyborg was Yoko Sonann.
After her “birth,” Nollin’s brother, Itall Sonann, conspired to use Yoko in a plot to overthrow Cyondia’s ruling queen, Kagura Dornburg, as an act of revenge. After falsifying records to state she was the daughter of Kagura, the Cydonian armed forces abducted Yoko and forced her to cross a minefield as a means of execution. Just as she was about to step into a mine, a group of warriors called Grünthal slaughtered the armed forces and rescued Yoko. Likely inspired by their bravery, Yoko eventually joined Grünthal’s fight and was picked by them to carry out Operation Maulwurf. The objective of this operation was to upload a virus into a quantum supercomputer, which would disrupt the systems of colony ships and lead to the deaths of 450,000 civilians.
She was successful in her mission, but Yoko was captured by Caerula Sanguis and was dropped into Earth’s atmosphere as a means of execution. Although her brain survived being burnt up during reentry, Yoko crash-landed near Star City and would lay in stasis for 200 years until she was discovered by Dr. Ido Daisuke. Ido repaired her body and began raising Yoko as if she were his own daughter. Unfortunately, Yoko had amnesia upon repair and couldn’t remember anything about her past, even her name. Due to her amnesia, Dr. Ido gave her the name “Alita.”
Skill and Experience
2B
As a battle model, 2B has ages of experience fighting for humanity against machine lifeforms on earth, getting more and more numerous over time. While the timeframe of Nier Automata is vague, we know she stands head and shoulders above most YoRHa units, which are the best machinery humanity has to offer. When taking into account the fact that 2B is actually an executioner unit, her skill level rises absurdly, as we realize she has much experience fighting other androids as well, particularly 9S, who she has killed almost 50 times.
Alita
Alita is a highly skilled warrior with extensive experience in combat, having fought numerous battles in the harsh world of the Scrapyard and beyond. Her martial arts prowess is unparalleled, having been trained in the ancient and deadly art of Panzer Kunst, which makes her a formidable opponent in hand-to-hand combat. With her cybernetic body, Alita possesses enhanced strength, speed, and agility, allowing her to outperform most adversaries. Her keen instincts and strategic thinking are honed through countless encounters with powerful foes, making her not only a survivor but a dominant force on the battlefield.
Bodies
2B
YorHa Type E (Executioner)
As an android designed by the YoRHa forces, 2B, like all of her android comrades, was built as a specific model type that dictates her role in operations. Despite the “B” in her name, which would normally stand for “Battler”, 2B is actually a Type E (Executioner) unit, an advanced combat model made for engaging in battle with other androids, be for taking out compromised or infected YoRHa units that could be captured by the Machine Lifeforms, or allies that exhibit rogue behavior and could rebel against the organization and humanity.
Android bodies are, of course, completely synthetic, but made in the image of humans. In addition to being able to replicate normal human activities like drinking, eating and sleeping, YoRHa androids possess greatly enhanced physical capabilities, and specific combat types like the Type E units are even more impressive than their non-combat peers. In addition to enhanced physicality, YoRHa units have access to the NFCS and FFCS technologies which allow them to yield multiple weapons in combat, and to customize their bodies with different plug-in chios which give different advantages and features to their combat and general performance.
Powering everything is a Black Box, a device that serves as the source of power and the memory storage unit of YoRHa androids. A fusion generator with immense power that can also self detonate, and with a mysterious origin…
Alita
Imaginos 2.1
After her Imaginos 2.0 body was destroyed during the ZOTT, Alita used energy from Jupiter to create the Imaginos 2.1 body. The original Imaginos Body is a cyborg body composed of nanomachines that was designed and created by Desty Nova. Thanks to the Imaginos Body’s cells, Alita can repair injuries and can prevent her body from malfunctioning.
Weapons and Equipment
2B
Field Control Systems
YoRHa units have technologies called the Near Field Control System (NFCS) and the Far Field Control System (FFCS). They give androids telekinetic-like abilities and allow them to remotely move and control any sort of melee weapon (ranging from simple iron pipes, to swords and even entire arms of giant robots), and their assigned Pods for support. Pods can also use them, being able to hold and move objects and androids. The Field Control System keeps 2B’s weapons floating on her back, and also causes them to teleport in combat or to her inventory.
Melee Weapons
The NFCS allows 2B to interface with virtually any weapon or object to use for melee combat. Here are all the weapons she has access to in NieR: Automata.
Pod-042
YoRHa units are assigned Pods for field missions. These small robots provide support with ranged attacks, data analysis and other general purposes.
YoRHa Flight Unit
A powerful flight unit given to all YoRHa pilots. Has a robot mode for combat, a flight mode for maximizing speed in the air, and another mode that maximizes speed during aerial combat.
Among their weapons and abilities are bullets and missiles propelled by particle beams, energy swords and large force fields.
Chips
YoRHa units can be equipped and customized with plug-in chips, which add new effects or change their stats. Here is a list of the most relevant plug-in chips 2B should have access to in NieR: Automata.
Black Box
The Black Box is essentially the power source for the androids, and also where their memories are stored, in a way acting like their brains and hearts simultaneously. It is responsible for providing the necessary energy for their functions and operations, and is made from the same material as the cores of the Machine Lifeforms. Weirdly enough, the Black Box can be utilized as a weapon of last resort. Androids can detonate their Black Box, causing a massive explosion that is capable of taking out nearby enemies, including powerful machine foes. This self-destruct mechanism is often depicted as a final act of sacrifice for the androids to ensure mission success or protect their allies.
Alita
Damascus Blade
Alita’s signature weapon. It is a high quality, diamond-hard blade that can cut through almost anything. Alita is capable of generating these blades from her arms.
Nanomachines
Microscopic robots consisting of gears, bearings, and motors constructed at the individual molecular level. Alita can deploy her nanomachines to attack or restrain enemies, or use them to hack and control technology.
Fata Morgana
After defeating Caerula, she entrusted Alita with the Fata Morgana, a program used to access the quantum supercomputer, Melchizedek. Because her bio-chip is fused with the Fata Morgana, Alita can freely enter cyberspace at any time, even in her sleep, and sense the activation of other technology.
Skills and Abilities
2B
Maso Particles
Magic. Maso is magic. To put it simply, Maso (also called the “Demonic Element” in japanese) is an extra dimensional energy particle that came from the world of Drakengard and brought about a horrible disease, but also allowed humans to create incredible advanced technology that is directly linked to all of the major events of the NieR timeline (more on that on Before The Verdicts). It was also, of course, weaponized, and further employed in the offensive capabilities of man-made magic weapons such as the Grimoires, Emil, and also adapted on military lasers. According to Yoko Taro, Maso is still being used in NieR automata, and is the secret behind the abilities of YoRHa units. From the visual similarities of a lot of 2B’s abilities and the same abilities displayed by Nier on the first game, it's safe to assume that most if not all of the YoRHa’s energy based skills are executed with and emanate Maso.
Data Analysis
Pods have the ability to analyze material composition and energy signatures, often helping their androids to identify weaknesses and make strategies against enemies.
2B’s plug-in chips also give her access to enemy data such as their remaining health.
Logic Virus
The logic virus is a condition in Nier that infects android lifeforms, turning them hostile towards their allies and making them lose control of their cognitive abilities. It is revealed that this virus was developed to prevent YoRHa units from spreading knowledge of the true status of humanity, partly by 2B herself. Ironically, the virus leads to her downfall, as she, along with every remaining YoRHa unit besides 9S and A2, would eventually succumb to it. The virus is stored inside 2B’s system and acts against hackers, in order to act as a counter to 9S in case he attempts to hack her.
Teleportation
2B seemingly can use teleportation in close combat at close distances as evident by when the player pulls off a perfect dodge. It can also be performed when using the Engine Blade.
Hacking
Being a YoRHa unit, 2B has a pod for missions on Earth with the ability to hack into enemy machines. A2 uses the exact thing on 9S to get rid of the logic virus. However, it's not advised that Battle units engage in hacking, according to the Pod itself.
Non-Physical Interaction
This GIF is from Nier: Replicant, which is the remaster from the OG Nier game
In the original NieR game, we have enemies called Shades. Turns out Shades are merely disembodied souls (Gestalts), that can still be harmed and killed thanks to their complicated state of consciousness, related to how they still yearn to be human. This would normally mean that harming shades wouldn't be real non-physical interaction within this context… if it wasn't for the fact that Maso is needed to interact with the soul and separate it from the body in the first place, making it so the magic skills that the YoRHa units use are able to interact with and harm non-physical beings such as souls.
To make this more consistent, in the Drakengard games (where magic originates from, remember?), there are enemies called Spirits and Specters, that are just as they sound. Since Caim can utilize magic to fight and defeat all of these enemies, it’s natural that magic would grant Non-Physical Interaction. In addition, the Drakengard World Inside guide states that magic works “directly on the substance beyond the physical body”.
Resurrection (Debatable)
2B is able to come back from the destruction of her body via having her consciousness transferred to another vessel connected to the YoRHa network, and then teleported and materialized to the nearest checkpoint from the YoRHa bunker, explaining why she can just reappear after death. The Reset plug-in chip also provides her with a chance of just being resurrected after her health reaches 0.
Fishing
Fishing allows players to catch various types of fish and mechanical lifeforms scattered throughout the game's world. These include ordinary fish like carp and killifish, unique species such as koi and arapaima, and even machine lifeforms like battery eels and gas cylinders. The fish and mechanical lifeforms can be sold for in-game currency, used for crafting materials, or exchanged for valuable items and upgrades.
Alita
Panzer Kunst Martial Arts
Alita is a high level practitioner in the Panzer Kunst Martian Martial Arts. Panzer Kunst is a unique martial arts style designed to combat enemies in zero gravity, allowing the practitioner to fight in any atmosphere. It emphasizes combat against both unarmed and armed opponents, including those with ranged weapons, as well as speed, agility, and fluidity.
Alita is easily one of her series’ best martial artists. She’s consistently defeated large groups of warriors and assassins single handedly and has defeated practitioners of the karate and bagua zhang martial arts. She’s held her own against Caerula, a disciple of 48 schools and 126 styles and has used them for over 700 years, and defeated Tunpo, who is basically the series’ strongest martial artist, when he was possessing Toji’s body.
Enhanced Senses
Alita is capable of sensing the presence of others through her heightened senses. Not only can she feel the movement of air molecules and sense electrical currents within a range of 15 meters, but she can also use sonar and echolocation to scan her surroundings, as well as determine if someone is a person or hologram.
Precognition
Alita is highly proficient in predicting her opponents by reading their chi. She can block attacks even when her vision has been covered, block attacks from invisible opponents, and slow down time to dodge attacks. Interestingly enough, Alita’s slow time has been compared to Caerula, whose vampire eye allowed them to keep up with Alita despite Caerula not even being a third of her top speed.
Flight
If the giant wings on her back weren’t an indicator, Alita can use them to fly.
Hertza Haeon
One of Alita’s most commonly used moves. The Hertza Haeon is a strike that delivers a high-frequency vibration to the victim, bypassing their defenses, and concentrating kinetic energy that, when used correctly, can be used to destroy or at least disrupt the function of the brain or heart.
Hertza Nadel
An advanced technique derived from the Hertza Haeon. The first strike, Vershlag, sets up a shockwave that bounces through the target’s body. The second strike explodes the target from within using the energy set up by Vershlag.
Plasma Manipulation
A superheated high energy matter Alita generates and manipulates in battle. It can be used to create attacks or propel herself at high speeds (as seen in the scan above). The plasma she generates can reach temperatures from 100,000 - 100,000,000 degrees celsius.
Plasma Jet
A technique in which Alita emits plasma from her fingers and uses said plasma as slashing weapons that can reach high temperatures.
Plasma Bite
A technique in which Alita generates split-second plasma jets from her fingertips to create undetectable cuts and gouges in the opponent’s body.
Decoys
Techniques Alita uses to create clones of herself. Alita can create these clones with plasma or her will. Decoys created with plasma are vulnerable to EMPs.
Electromagnetism
Alita has the ability to control electromagnetic forces. With it, she can create shields, rip machines apart with magnetic power, and supercharge machines with enough electricity to cause lightning to strike them.
Electromagnetic Punch
A technique where Alita punches at supersonic speeds. Alita’s super punch applies electromagnetism for supersonic acceleration.
Plasma Soliton
Against an opponent that uses electromagnetic waves, Alita can force a buildup of plasma between herself and the opponent before using the opponent’s electromagnetic waves against them, blasting them with the built-up plasma.
Javelin Punch
A technique in which Alita excites the electrons in her hand to form an anti-tank shell and generate explosions from it.
Javelin Kick
A technique in which Alita excites the electrons in her foot to form an anti-tank shell and generate explosions from it.
Regeneration
After making a deal with Arthur and Jupitan, Alita gained the ability to reconstruct her body from "scratch". This is done by borrowing energy from Jupiter through her wormhole core.
Hacking
Due to her fusion with Fata Morgana, Alita is now linked to Melchizedek, giving her advanced hacking abilities. With it, she can negate any attempts to hack her, hack into computer systems and take control of other machinery, and enter cyberspace at superluminal speeds, even when sleeping. When Alita fought Trinidad in cyberspace, the damage she dealt on his cyberspace body transferred back onto his real body. It is also implied that destroying one’s cyber body would kill them in the physical world as well.
Feats
2B
Overall
Demonstrated exceptional skill in piloting a Flight Unit, using it to engage in aerial combat against massive enemy formations
Participated in the defense and evacuation of the Resistance Camp during a massive machine assault
Led the assault into the heavily defended Forest Kingdom
Overcame the opera singer Simone, a highly advanced and unique machine lifeform that had integrated several android parts into its own system to increase its power
Fought a war against the machine lifeforms invading humanity until the bitter end
Defeated wave after wave of corrupted YoRHa units
Revealed to have killed 9S almost 50 times before the events of the game
Played a key role in revealing the hidden truths about the YoRHa units and the origins of the machines
Strength
Can swing a sword so hard it cuts a building in half horizontally
Can grab an Engels’ arm wield it as a weapon with telekinesis
Speed
Durability
Successfully fought and defeated Grȕn, a massive biomechanical creature in the ocean, and could tank it's strikes - (482 megatons of TNT)
Her body, swords and items are not completely destroyed by a point blank Black Box detonation and can be picked up again
Alita
Overall
Joined the motorball championship in the brutal and competitive sport while climbing the ranks as a newcomer
Fought and defeated the monstrous Makaku in the Scrapyard, who was notorious for consuming cyborg brains to absorb their endorphins
Survived and triumphed in the deadly Z.O.T.T., overcoming numerous highly skilled warriors and cyborgs
Battled against Nova, her intellectual and manipulative nemesis, thwarting his complex schemes multiple times
Uncovered her past life on Mars, revealing her origins as a Künstler, a highly trained combat specialist
Played a crucial role in the geopolitical landscape of Mars, affecting the power dynamics
Strength
Throws a concrete beam with enough force to knock Sachmudo over
Her wormhole reactor recreated her body (8 gigatons) (Debatable) (see Before the Verdicts)
Speed
Durability
Resistances
2B
Heat/Fire: 2B is able to withstand the heat from laser beams, which can easily burn and melt steel
Electricity/Electromagnetism: In addition to YoRHa having an anti-magnetic skin that protect them from EMPs, 2B also has access to the item “Volt-Proof Salve” that nullifies electric attacks and EMPs for a period of time
Hacking: 2B’s logic virus trap makes it harder for enemies to take control of her system without being infected and removed
Alita
Mind Reading: Reading Alita’s mind overwhelms Kaos
Heat/Fire: Alita survived within a tornado hot enough to incinerate humans
Electricity/Electromagnetism: Alita endured Zapan’s electrocution
Hacking: After Nova hacked her body and trapped her mind in his Ouroboros program, Alita was able to break out of his program through sheer willpower. If that wasn’t enough, after being upgraded to her Imaginos 2.0 body, Alita could completely neutralize Trinidad and Nova’s attempts to her body.
Scaling
2B
9S
2B has defeated and killed 9S in combat multiple times, and they demonstrate comparable abilities when fighting side to side.
Withstood the explosion of a nuclear missile he was riding on
Can dodge particle beams, EMPs and lasers
Can dodge attacks while flying his Flight Unit, which can move from the Yorha base to Earth very fast - (Mach 1858)
A2
2B directly contends with A2's advanced combat abilities and tactical experience in a high-stakes duel, highlighting their comparable strengths and combat capabilities. 9S also managed to kill her in one of the endings, a character 2B scales to.
Survived A4’s Black Box detonation from a distance. The explosion took out Mt. Ka’ala and the Machine Lifeform underground server, and left a smoking crater behind. It also vaporized A4 without a trace, implying the mountain and the server might have been vaporized - (734 megatons to 5.34 gigatons of TNT)
Other YorHa Units
As a highly skilled combat android, 2B routinely executes missions that require similar levels of strength, agility, and tactical acumen as those demonstrated by her fellow YoRHa operatives.
A4’s Black Box detonation wiped out Mt. Ka’ala, leaving a smoking ashen crater behind, potentially having vaporized it - (27 to 196 gigatons of TNT)
Commander White blew up Johnston Atoll with the YoRHa Laser Satellite
Machine Lifeforms
2B routinely defeats high-level Machine threats, including advanced and colossal types, showcasing her ability to combat and overpower the most formidable adversaries in their ranks.
Engles can punch each other flying away - (8.2 megatons of TNT)
Grun can swing his tentacle arm at high speeds - (482 megatons of TNT)
NieR: Replicant Characters
2B scales to the feats of NieR: Replicant characters because she combats Devola and Popola, androids who appear in both games, and faces a more advanced version of Emil, demonstrating she should be comparable to their combat abilities, making the scaling chain reasonable.
Alita
Toji
A space karate master that leads the Space Karate Forces. Alita has fought and defeated Toji on multiple occasions, so she naturally scales to him.
Sechs
A TUNED AR Series 2 combat android and one of Alita’s rivals. Alita has defeated Sechs and is officially ranked to be faster than him, so Alita should scale to him.
Sechs survives getting punched with enough force to create a crater
Sechs’ body auto-implodes within a margin of error counted in nanoseconds
Caerula
A Type-V mutant. A vampire. Yes, vampires exist in this manga. Alita fought and defeated Caerula, so she scales to her.
Caerula is a disciple of 126 styles of martial arts and has 700 years of experience
Anomaly
While Alita never directly fought Anomaly, Zekka used Toji’s body to destroy it. Toji also blocked an attack that he claims was stronger than Anomaly’s libido cannon (yes, this monster is literally a dick). Because Alita scales to Toji, Alita should scale to Anomaly.
Warmen 609
Alita hacked and took control of Warmen 609’s Jupiter Dynamo, so Alita should scale to it.
Zekka (Debatable)
According to official character stats, Alita’s speed matches Zekka’s, so anything he does in terms of speed should scale to her. Whether or not she downscales from him in terms of attack potency though is debatable (hence why his scaling is labeled as debatable). For more in-depth information on this, please read Before the Verdicts.
Zekka’s karate is stated to be on the level of the theory of relativity (what?)
Zekka pushes Toji so hard that his body reaches the first cosmic velocity (Mach 23)
Zekka’s expansion punch covers 2 km at FTE speeds (Mach 23 - 583)
Zekka’s rival, Tunpo, uses Alita’s wormhole reactor to create a black hole (5.5 petatons for lifting, 112 petatons for moving, and 50 quettatons for creation)
Weaknesses
2B
“Oh, Nines…”
2B, despite her impressive combat skills, has several weaknesses. Her emotional conflict, particularly regarding her relationship with 9S, often impacts her focus and decision-making. She is also bound by YoRHa commands, which can limit her ability to act independently in crucial moments. Memory wipes enforced by YoRHa can also cause her to lose valuable experiences and insights, hindering her growth and adaptability in battle. Her Black Box, while a powerful energy source, is a significant vulnerability if compromised. Additionally, her self-repair capabilities are not instantaneous, making her susceptible to severe damage. Moreover, she is vulnerable to the Logic Virus, which can corrupt and incapacitate her, posing a significant threat to her functionality and mission success.
Alita
“I’m glad I had the chance to know you. Goodbye, my love.”
Altho not as frequent, Alita's memories and past traumas can resurface, affecting her mental stability and focus during battles, clouding her judgment in critical moments, as we saw this happen at her fight against Makaku, Zapan, on her Motorball matchups, in her fight against Nova and her fight with Sechs. Her Panzer Kunst martial arts style, while powerful, can be countered by opponents who are familiar with its techniques. Additionally, her dependence on external power sources can be a liability in prolonged conflicts. Lastly, her compassion for others sometimes leads her to make decisions that put her at a tactical disadvantage.
Before the Verdict
Yokoverse canon and crossovers
Let's try to make this as least confusing as possible. Drakengard (Drag-On Dragoon in Japan) and NieR are part of the same franchise created by eccentric game designer Yoko Taro and published by Square Enix. In one of the multiple canon endings (more on this later) of Drakengard 1, the main character and his dragon are isekai’d to our world in Tokyo, and bring with them a giant End of Evangelion reference called the Queen-Beast. After one of the worst final boss fights of all time, the death of the Queen-Beast unleashed the element Maso in our world, which in turn causes an uncontrollable pandemic of a disease called the White Chlorination Syndrome and the start of project Gestalt, a plan to separate soul from body. Both of these intertwined events lead to the destruction of humanity and the events of the first NieR, and then NieR: Automata. You can learn more about the timeline of events of the series here.
Now let's go back to Drakengard. Remember we mentioned multiple canon endings? What's up with that? Well, in Drakengard 3 we're introduced to the character of Accord, a mysterious android from a different time that introduces herself as someone that watches over and records events of the world. The most curious part is that she mentions to Zero, our protagonist, that she keeps running into “bad endings”. What does that mean? Well… in Drakengard 3 it's explained that a multiverse exists. Different actions caused by the magic of our protagonist generate branching timelines leading to different events, represented in the endings of the game. Accord is aware of that, and appears in the different timelines to record the events of the story, eventually interfering in them. This all is to explain that the different endings of every DrakeNieR game are all branching timelines, and therefore all “canon”.
We can, by consequence, extend this concept to different mediums, even ones that adapt pre existing stories. The new NieR: Automata anime, the manga adaptation of the canonical NieR: Automata stage play, the music concerts, the multiple short stories that detail events that are told in different places, are all officially licensed material published by Square Enix and with involvement of Yoko Taro. Which leads to the conclusion that they are branching timelines as well, and therefore perfectly usable as far as canon is concerned.
What about crossovers? Are they canon branching timelines as well? Can we scale 2B to Neo Exdeath because of Final Fantasy XIV? In truth, you can genuinely argue that, and Yoko Taro doesn't seem to care at all. For this blog, we decided to not include crossovers for 2B for the simple fact that it's more interesting to analyze her potential scaling and abilities in her own series than to base her stats off of a completely different franchise. Not to mention, the cosmic levels of power that crossovers such as Final Fantasy XIV would give her are obviously outliers as far as the feats in NieR that she scales to are concerned.
In conclusion: Everything in the games is canon. Different NieR media are branching timelines of the same events and therefore are usable for scaling and abilities for 2B. Crossovers are arguable but we're not doing them for the sake of consistency and fairness. Drakengard 1 is a horrible game.
Island level Alita?
So you know that manga scan that states Alita’s wormhole reactor converted energy into mass to reform her body? Yeah…this scan in question is a mistranslation. This is what he actually said. To be fair, one could still argue that Alita’s regeneration works by converting energy into mass. Not only did she recreate her body from scratch, but Trinidad’s men detected an abnormal increase in mass coming from her wormhole reactor while she was regenerating. Don Fua also converted energy from Alita’s wormhole reactor into mass to create that black hole. While it makes sense to argue Alita’s regeneration utilizes energy to mass conversion, there’s technically no official source that states this is what’s happening, so we’ve decided to leave this as debatable.
FTL feats
Both combatants have speed feats that can be argued to be matching or faster than the speed of light, although with controversial validity. Let's see how both hold up in that regard.
Starting with 2B, she has quite a few arguments that land her around the lightspeed ranges. First, we have the fact that she is able to react to EMPs and 9S can react to particle beam propelled projectiles, which move at the speed of light and near it in real life respectively. 9S moves in tandem with the particle beam projectiles and dodges them, offering clear scaling. About the EMPs, 2B does not really move in tandem with it upon inspecting frame by frame. However, she is capable of reaction to them with the auto-dodge chip, which forcefully activates a dodge in contact with an attack AFTER it's fired. Not the most solid justification in the world, but it is not needed. The auto-dodge works on every projectile in the game, so its support for the particle beam dodges as well.
The next case would be the lasers. We all know lasers in fiction do not always follow the properties of their real life counterparts and can't always be considered light speed and yadda yadda yadda. Fortunately, NieR lasers have some interesting statements regarding them that would indicate that they are indeed moving at the speed of light. First off, we have a laser being referred to as an “irradiated laser” in a short story. Real life lasers are light amplified by electromagnetic radiation, and the clear mention of radiation in the laser description would give more credence to it being made with the intention of it being a lightspeed beam. It would make no sense for only this specific laser to work like that, as lasers are a recurrent technology in NieR and this clearly refers to how real life lasers operate. Second, we have the fact that lasers are also used in communications in NieR Automata. In real life, lasers are used as a replacement for radio waves in optical communication because they are capable of transmitting more data, but both are still forms of electromagnetic radiation and travel through space at the same speeds (the speed of light). The fact lasers are used as a form of communication in the setting necessarily means they travel at the speed of light, because if they weren't a form of electromagnetic radiation they wouldn't be able to transmit data, or simply be extremely inefficient at it due to speed, meaning there would be no logical reason for lasers to be used instead of radio waves. 2B of course can dodge lasers in gameplay, and 10H has a pretty clear cut feat of dodging a laser point blank, making lightspeed consistent for the verse all around.
Let's move on to Alita. According to Zekka, Sechs body auto-implodes within a margin of error counted in nanoseconds, so that means Sechs is capable of reacting within this timeframe, yes? Well, it’s probably not that simple. There are many ways to interpret this statement, but it’s more likely that this statement is referring to the timing required for the expansion rather than the speed Sechs fights and reacts at. Not only is Sechs running speed stated to only be supersonic, but he has also been tagged by EMPs, which moved at light speed. The technique has also been described as using the speed of supersonic accelerated ions inside his body, and referred to as being “supersonic while standing still”. With that said however, Alita’s digital body is capable of connecting to cyberspace at superluminal speed, which is faster than light.
Zekka/Tunpo Scaling?
Zekka and Tunpo are one of, if not the most powerful fighters throughout the entire series. Not only does the series itself state this, but all of the best feats in the series come directly from them, whether it be Zekka karate chopping an asteroid in half or Tunpo creating a black hole. So if that’s the case, would Alita even scale to them? After all, she’s never even fought Zekka directly and she only fought Tunpo when he was possessing Toji’s body. Well, there are a few ways we can create a scaling chain between Alita and Zekka/Tunpo to argue downscaling.
According to their official character stats, Imaginos 2.0 Alita is just as fast as Zekka, so anything he does in regards to speed can be scaled back to her. When it comes to attack potency though, this is where things become debatable. While Alita has never fought Zekka directly, she does scale to Sechs, who was able to fight against Zekka. Whether or not Sechs scales to or downscales from Zekka is debatable and will be left to the reader to decide.
On one end, Zekka holds back against Sechs throughout most of their fight and is still depicted as being the stronger of the two. It also doesn’t help that the only time Sechs does any notable damage to Zekka, it was by striking him in a weak spot. On the other end though, after Sechs’ body went through a phase transition midfight (boosting his stats), Zekka himself states that the two were “finally on a level playing field” and that Sechs would only lose due to his superior experience. We also see that Sechs was able to trade blows with/survive multiple hits from a serious Zekka. It also helps that Zekka states that he had to go “all out” to defeat Sechs and believed Sechs was worthy enough to have a rematch with.
If you believe this is enough to suggest Sechs scales to or downscales from Zekka, then Alita would be comparable to all of Zekka’s AP feats. If not, then she wouldn’t scale. Again, this is up to the readers of the blog to decide.
Alita’s “Soul”?
Alita's bio-chip is central to her existence and the debate about whether she has a soul or if it's merely data. The bio-chip in Alita’s case serves as her brain, housing her consciousness, memories, and personality. It’s a complex device that blurs the lines between biological and artificial intelligence, raising philosophical questions about what constitutes a soul in a technologically advanced world. The bio-chip's importance is further highlighted by its integration with the Fata Morgana. The Fata Morgana is a program that grants access to Melchizedek, a quantum supercomputer that governs the space city of Tiphares. This program is not just a tool but becomes a part of her identity, enhancing her abilities and connectivity with cyberspace and other technologies. The relationship between Alita's bio-chip and the Fata Morgana elevates her from being a mere cyborg to something more akin to a techno-spiritual entity. The bio-chip allows her consciousness to merge seamlessly with digital environments, suggesting her "soul" can navigate and interact within both physical and digital realms. This dual existence supports the notion that her soul is not traditional but a hybrid of existential experiences enabled by her unique technological enhancements.
Regarding whether it's data or a real soul, or if the soul actually exists, the manga doesn’t actually answer. Even then, Alita’s narrative seems to propose that she has an essence, or soul, and that it transcends conventional biological definitions. It is portrayed as a synthesis of her human experiences and memories (stored and processed through the bio-chip) and her capacity to connect deeply with the digital and cosmic realities via the Fata Morgana. Thus, her soul is depicted as both an emergent property of her complex data arrays and a metaphysical existence facilitated by her unique cybernetic enhancements.
Verdicts
2B Verdict
Stats
In regards to power and durability, we found that 2B holds a significant edge against Alita. First we have 2B’s scaling to A2, a character she and 9S fight, and that is of course built on the same model as herself, granting basic scaling in AP and durability. A2’s best feat is tanking the self-detonation of No.4, with results ranging from 734 megatons to 5.34 gigatons of TNT, or high into mountain to island level. Alita’s scaling can potentially get much higher, but as we'll disclose up next, it has several problems that stop her from reaching very high after just a little bit of scrutiny.
The best AP feat that can potentially be attributed to Alita is the creation and movement of a black hole by Tunpo. This feat has been considered very straightforward scaling wise in internet versus spaces for a long time, but if you actually look into the context, you can see it falls apart very easily.
Starting with creation. The primary claim is that Alita's wormhole core generated it, and therefore she should scale to the energy necessary to do that, as the wormhole core is her power source. Simple enough? Well, no. First off, the wormhole core did not actually generate the energy that brought about the black hole. Tunpo, a character whose whole gimmick is teleporting things, siphoned the energy from Jupiter in order to create the black hole, which means that not only Alita’s actual energy source wasn't used to create the black hole, but also that the energy wasn't absorbed or withstood by Tunpo himself, as he merely used his teleporting ability and the wormhole core to bring the energy to his location and create the black hole. In short, the creation of the black hole cannot be attributed to AP to Tunpo or Alita.
Next up is Tunpo moving the black hole. While we do see visible movement of Tunpo’s arm when the black hole is teleported, it's important to note again that Tunpo's gimmick is teleporting things, thus it's hard to determine if the intention of the author was that Tunpo was exerting absurd amounts of energy to move the black hole, especially given how inconsistent this feat would be (more on that later).
We then have Zekka's planet busting statement. It's simply not a planet busting statement. It's worded in a clearly hyperbolic way. Zekka was likely alluding to his antimatter power, whose best showing caps at small planet level and was actually going to kill him.
We then have Alita's regenerating feat, landing at an impressive number of 8 gigatons of TNT if e=mc² is used. As it turns out, there's no direct statement indicating that the wormhole core is using energy-mass conversion in that instance, and wouldn't really make sense to scale to her in the first place, since it's recreating her body, meaning it isn't withstanding anything. We also have evidence in the series for power sources not scaling to AP or durability directly, as Zekka using the full power of his antimatter reactor was just going to kill him for example.
Finally, the most reasonable and direct feat that could be attributed to Battle Angel Alita scaling is Zekka splitting an asteroid, landing from city to mountain level power depending on the timeframe.
But since we're here, a question arises: why does Alita even scale to Zekka and Tunpo in power? Well, for starters, we found that she doesn't. Starting off with direct claims, Alita has not once fought Zekka or Tunpo directly. The only way for Alita to scale to these two characters is through Sechs, who does fight Zekka, who is a rival do Tunpo. The issue with this is that Sechs fails to damage Zekka in any capacity during their fight, relying on targeting his weak point (nothing else would work) to even be acknowledged as a challenge for Zekka, rendering scaling to them as a very generous interpretation.
Alita's best feat would then be scaling to nuclear statements, making her vaguely city at best.
In terms of speed, Alita is similarly outclassed. Starting with 2B, she has pretty reliable scaling to other YoRHa, who all have particle beam and laser dodging, with a very good point blank laser dodge feat from 10H giving her a 1.54c rating in speed. Since 2B is an Executioner unit, regarded as the strongest YoRHa model, she upscales this value by a lot, and has several methods to amp her speed further with chips.
Alita's best claim for speed would be Sechs saying his implosion attack happens within a margin of error of nanoseconds. This however isn't as clear cut for reactions, as a margin of error is merely a degree of deviation from a target value, meaning Sechs is just good at timing. This is also allied to the fact they say nanoseconds plural, we don't know how many nanoseconds Zekka meant. 2? 10? 100? We have no means to know. Being more reasonable, Sechs' implosion is stated to be supersonic several times, so it's more likely and consistent that's the end of it. Since he does fight Zekka hand for hand in speed, it's likely he and Alita can scale to the massively hypersonic values taken from Zekka's FTE implosion punch.
Toji does have a laser feat… with no tandem movement and from a large distance, meaning Alita really isn't FTL speeds with her physical body. She is stated to connect to cyberspace at superluminal speeds, but that wouldn't make much difference for reasons you'll see up next in abilities.
In conclusion, 2B takes the stat trinity pretty handily, as her opponent requires several leaps in logic and very lenient scaling to achieve numbers that surpass her.
Powers & Abilities
Let’s cut to the chase and address the elephant in the room: how can 2B even kill Alita for good? A common misconception is that, via her regeneration and soul, Alita could come back from virtually nothing, since the manga keeps hammering that she comes back from “scratch”. This will lead us to analyze what happened with Alita in the two events people use to argue and show what actually happened.
When Nova’s block to disintegrate Alita only had a 80% success rate, he was confident that she wouldn’t come back due to her ego being shattered after just revealing she wasn’t the real Alita, but had a bio-chip with Alita’s memories (does this remind you of someone?). The manga makes sure we notice her bio-chip was intact (since it’s connected to Fata Morgana), and then Melchizedek/Fata Morgana appears with Arthur’s appearance to help her want to have motivation to keep living. When we see her again, it’s actually her bio-chip being thrown at enemies hands, where she regenerates from it and cuts Warmen 609's hand.
When she was destroyed the second time at Toji’s hands, we see that her head was one of the few saved parts from the destruction, and when she regenerated back, it used parts of the wreckage.
Basically, what we are trying to say is that she would only be able to get energy from Jupiter via her wormhole core and even keep her “soul’s” existing due to her bio-chip being intact. All people here in team 2B think that she does have a type of soul, be it a data type or esoteric, but in the end it doesn’t really matter if she has one or not.
In the end of the day, all 2B has to do is actually destroy her bio-chip, and with Pods having the ability to identify weaknesses and make strategies against enemies, it’s very unlikely 2B won’t know what to do here right from the start, and because 2B’s attacks are capable of non-physical interaction, it’s impossible Alita’s soul, whatever it is and if it exists, resist her attacks. There’s even a really quick (but debatable) way that 2B could finish the fight, which is just a Black Box + Resurrection combo. 2B’s plug-in chips also will help her remain recharging health even if Alita is able to attack her, and the fact 2B can activate her antimagnetic skin, it means a lot of Alita’s kit are rendered useless in this fight.
Altho we said all that, don’t look at us like we think this matchup is a stomp, it’s far from it, in fact it’s quite complicated. While 2B takes physical stats, Alita’s main argument is that she's gonna retreat to cyberspace upon death and hack from there. Let’s say even if she actually doesn’t gets her soul killed by 2B on the spot (even if 2B herself has FTL speed and could match Alita’s cyberbody) and goes to cyberspace at superluminal speeds. 2B would be very likely royally screwed. She basically can’t do anything to stop Alita from hacking and killing her, since Alita has hacking resistances and possibly better hacking than PODs and 2B. This really comes down to whether you believe Alita can resist the logic virus or not. Altho Alita is shown to virtually resist any hacking attempt, there’s not any instance where she is shown to have resistance to what the logic virus does to androids in Nier, and with the virus being stored in 2B’s body the entire time, it’s possible she might get infected herself. Even then, this could come as a cost to 2B as well, and that’s already ignoring the possibility Alita might just resist it. That being said, if you happen to believe the virus could take her down, it would prove the PODs in Nier are the superior hackers, since they are able to remove the virus. There’s also the possibility she gets lucky and the Damascus Blade does the job for Alita. Either way, we think these scenarios would only happen if you give Alita every single benefit of the doubt to succeed, and more times than not, 2B’s physical superior speed, AP, hax and resistances are the perfect combo to take Alita’s body and (possible) soul down for good.
Tertiary Factors
2B operates with the support of the YoRHa network, which provides her with real-time data and intelligence. This networked intelligence allows 2B to access tactical information, mission updates, and environmental analyses, potentially giving her a strategic edge over Alita. The support from her PODs also enhances her capabilities, providing her with additional firepower and tactical options during combat. Her ability to remain calm under pressure and execute missions with precision and efficiency can also be a significant advantage in a battle where strategic execution is crucial. This discipline ensures that 2B can maintain her composure and execute complex maneuvers, even in chaotic or unpredictable situations in the fight. Altho the Panzer Kunst is nothing to scruff at, 2B is equipped with advanced combat programming that allows her to execute a wide range of fighting techniques and adapt to various combat scenarios. Her programming also includes efficient use of weapons, evasive maneuvers, and tactical assessments, enabling her to respond effectively to Alita's attacks and adapt to her fighting style, so while not exactly being better at H2H, she’s far from completely outclassed.
Conclusion
Advantages:
Faster than Alita physically and matches her in speed with her cyberspace body
Matches and surpasses Alita in strength with lower end interpretations…
2B has a more versatile arsenal and can attack from longer ranges and can hold her own in H2H…
Has ways to kill Alita for good even if she has a real soul via destroying her chip…
Logic Virus could infect Alita if she manages to hack 2B via cyberspace…
Her game is a banger
Nier: Replicant is Kaiser’s favorite game of all time
While using heels, 2B has exactly the same size as Flip
Disadvantages:
…but with higher end interpretations she is weaker than Alita (altho they aren’t very reliable)
…but Alita has superior H2H combat
…but if Alita manages to go to cyberspace, it’s likely game over
…but that working is already very debatable, and 2B could get infected with the virus in the process
Inferior regeneration
Alita’s nanomachines can hack 2B and her pod
Alita would resist pod’s hacking
Internet gooners
In the end, while Alita was a powerful opponent that could have won under specific circumstances and interpretations, 2B’s arguments are simply much easier and more consistent. Yoko had the tenacity, but the YoRHa Executioner had the sheer power, durability and speed to get the job done. This Battle Angel’s victory seemed NieR, but her wings were just crushed under the Weight of the World. The winner is YoRHa No. 2 Type B.
Alita Verdict
Stats
When it comes to speed, unless we were to interpret Zekka’s nanosecond statement to mean that Sechs can fight and react within that time frame, 2B should hold the edge. At best, Alita can move at Mach 17 speeds and scales to Zekka, whose expansion punch can reach high hypersonic to massively hypersonic speeds. Meanwhile, 2B can react to and dodge attacks moving at light speed. Even if we were to factor in Alita’s ability to slow down time and comparing it to Caerula’s vampire eye, she would at most be capable of dodging attacks moving at Mach 1800 speeds at best. But while Alita is physically slower than 2B, her digital body is more than capable of matching her in speed. As mentioned before, her digital body can move at “superluminal speed,” which is faster than light, which is more than capable of matching 2B.
But of course, speed would mean nothing if Alita didn’t have the attack potency to damage 2B. Fortunately, she does. While it can be debated whether or not Sechs scales to Zekka, we believe there’s more than enough evidence to suggest that Sechs, at worst, would downscale from Zekka’s best displays of strength. To reiterate, Zekka himself states that he and Sechs’ ionized state were on an even playing field and he had to go all out to defeat him. Sechs was also capable of trading multiple blows with a serious Zekka and Zekka even complimented Sechs on his ability to withstand his serious punches. It also helps that Zekka’s rival, Tunpo, possessed Toji’s body to fight Alita and believed she was a tough combatant. With all this in mind, we believe it’s fair to say that Alita should downscale from Tunpo and Zekka.
At his best, Tunpo was powerful enough to create, lift, and throw a black hole. While there are many ways to calculate this feat, even with the lowest end interpretation, the kinetic energy required for Tunpo to physically lift the black hole would yield results over 5 petatons of TNT. That is over 1 MILLION times the amount of joules A2 survived and over 28,000 times more powerful than A4’s black box detonation. And if Sechs is capable of taking blows like this and can keep fighting, we believe Alita is capable of doing the same.
Powers & Abilities
While 2B has the bigger arsenal, nothing in her arsenal would be able to put Alita down for good thanks to her superior durability and regeneration. While 2B has ways of healing herself, if any part of her body were to be destroyed, she can't put it back together. Alita on the other hand can, and this level of regen combined with her durability gives her the options needed to outlast 2B's arsenal.
2B's best shot at defeating Alita would be through her POD's hacking ability, but considering that Alita's body was completely unaffected by Trinidad's hacking, we find it veeeeeeery unlikely that POD's hacking would do anything. Not only was Trinidad the solar system's most powerful hacker, but his hacking was powerful enough to take control of a room of cyborgs just by entering the room and could outhack other hackers/bypass certain levels of hacking resistances. If that level of hacking couldn't affect Alita, then the chances of POD's hacking being effective is slim. So while Alita can resist her opponent's hacking, the same can't be said for 2B. 2B's body has been hacked before, and given that Alita's hacking is good enough to outhack Trinidad, we see no reason why Alita wouldn't be able to hack 2B as well.
Maybe one could argue that if the fight were to be taken into cyberspace that 2B would hold the edge, but Alita was able to beat Trinidad with ease in cyberspace so that's probably unlikely as well. What about the Logic Virus? Wouldn't that stop Alita from hacking 2B? The answer…well, there’s an argument that could be made for it, but a case can be made for Alita overcoming it.
First of all, POD removed the Logic Virus from 9S through hacking. 21 was also able to remove the Logic Virus from Lily as well. As we've already established, Alita's hacking is superior to POD's, so there's no reason why she can't do the same thing. Second, when Nova hacked Alita's TUNED body and trapped her mind in the Ouroboros program, Alita was able to break out of it through sheer willpower. If Alita could overcome that, we believe it's likely that she can overcome the Logic Virus as well. Third, Nova stated the Imaginos Body can’t break down, so it’s unlikely that the virus would be able to break Alita’s body down. Finally, this is all assuming that Alita would even resort to hacking to defeat 2B, and given Alita’s physical advantage, she doesn’t haaaaaaaaaaave to do that.
Tertiary Factors
First and foremost, Alita's extensive combat experience across a wide range of environments has honed her instincts and strategic thinking. Unlike 2B, who primarily operates within the parameters of her mission objectives, Alita has repeatedly demonstrated her ability to adapt and improvise, even in the most unpredictable circumstances. This adaptability allows her to exploit unexpected advantages during battle. Secondly, the Panzer Kunst is a martial art that Alita has mastered, specifically designed for cyborgs to maximize their physical and tactical capabilities in combat. It combines elements of offensive and defensive techniques with a focus on adaptability, making it a highly versatile fighting style. This gives Alita a significant edge in close-quarters combat against opponents like 2B, when she can adjust her fighting style dynamically in response to her opponent's actions, allowing her to exploit weaknesses and counteract strategies in real-time.
Conclusion
“I will not stand by in the presence of evil!”
Advantages:
Superior H2H combat…
Matches and surpasses 2B in strength with higher end interpretations…
Regardless of stats, the Damascus Blade can cut through 2B
Matches 2B in speed with her cyberspace body…
Superior regeneration
Nanomachines can hack 2B and her pod
Resists pod’s hacking
Her live action movie made by James Cameron doesn’t suck…
Hotter (according to Strunton and Lunge)...
Disadvantages:
…but 2B has a more versatile arsenal and can attack from longer ranges
…but is weaker than 2B with lower end interpretations
…but is physically slower than 2B
…but her big buggy eyes do and it also cucked us out of a proper Alita anime
…less hot according to everyone else in the world
Cake got nerfed in Last Order
Internet gooners
Another victim in ThoseGuysThatQuitVs’ fraud watch
We swear this isn’t intentional
Ultimately, while 2B is a powerful opponent in her own right, Alita’s superior strength, endurance, regeneration, hacking, and martial arts are more than enough to put down the combat android. The Yorha unit was niering victory, but this win was just not meant 2B. The winner is Alita.
Tally
2B (2) - Kaiser, Lunge
Alita (2) - Strunton, Flip
aji wo [K]utta 🐟 (2) - Mau, Serge
Really happy this Masterpiece of a Matchup is Debatable.
ReplyDeleteGlad i could help
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