Prediction Blog: Kamille Bidan vs Hikaru Ichijyo (Gundam vs Macross)

 

(Kaiser)

(Serge)

(Marlon)

(Pickle)

(Mau)


“Love is like war: easy to begin but very hard to stop”

-H. L. Mencken

Introduction

Is love so strong it can bloom even in a warzone? This question appeared to the iconic Otacon from the Metal Gear Solid series, and the combatants we’ll analyze today. Kamille Bidan, the protagonist from the Zeta Gundam series, and Hikaru Ichijo, the first Macross hero. From civilians to aces, both compelled to pilot robots against a threat to their homes and families. And today, we find out who would win A DEATH BATTLE!!!

Before We Start…

For Kamille, we’re going to go over all of the ORIGINAL Universal Century canon for Gundam. That includes 0079, Zeta, ZZ, 08th MS Team, MS IGLOO, 0083, and the film Char’s Counterattack.


For Hikaru, we are going to cover the original Macross series, Macross Zero, and the film Do You Remember Love.


Japanese guidebooks will be used as auxiliary material for both, translated with screen reading software.


The Gundam Unofficial and Macross Mecha Manual fan sites will also be used for reference as they provide English translated material from cited official sources such as guidebooks and production manuals that we otherwise wouldn't have access to. They are well cited and accurate with the information they provide, so it should be fair game.


Robotech will not be used as it has its own separate continuity with three completely different anime Frankensteined together (fuck you Harmony Gold).


This blog likely contains major spoilers for both franchises.

Background

Kamille Bidan

  • Age: 17 (Zeta), 18 (Double Zeta)

  • Ensign at the Anti Earth Union Group during the Gryps Conflict

  • Citizen of the Earth Federation

  • Based neurodivergent representation


Kamille Bidan was just an ordinary delinquent in the Gryps space colony. Alienated from other kids for his feminine name and hot-headed temperament he took up mechanics and martial arts, which would eventually make him a perfect candidate for the war that would soon tear his livelihood, his family, and everything he knew about the world he lived in apart. In a particular occasion where Kamille acted a bit too silly (he assaulted an army officer from the Titans group and got imprisoned, which later led him to steal a Gundam and start wrecking stuff up), Kamille got caught in the middle of an invasion by rebel forces against the new, more tyrannical rule of the Earth Federation by the Titans. Recruited by the Anti Earth Union Group and mentored by officer Quattro Bajeena (where have I seen this guy before…) in their battle against the tyrannical Titans who governed his home, Kamille would soon climb up the ranks and become one of the most powerful and impressive Newtypes the universe has seen.

Unfortunately, Kamille’s success in battle would not translate to success in the romantic field, as his relationship with genetically-engineered Cyber-Newtype Four Masamune would soon reveal. They loved each other yet Four’s mental programming forced her to battle him which traumatized Kamille severely, not helped by the recent deaths of his parents. She would later die in battle, cementing Kamille’s hatred of the Titans more than ever. All the trauma was more than Kamille could bear, and he would soon access the most powerful of his Newtype abilities.

The final battle between the Titans and the AEUG would be brutal, and many lives would be lost on both sides. Near the end of the battle, Kamille would deal a fatal blow to his greatest enemy, The Man from Jupiter, Paptimus Scirocco, by ramming the Zeta into his Mobile Suit. However he did not expect to be dealt a devastating psychic attack from Scirocco in the end, which would brain damage him severely for years, making him revert his mind to the one of a child.

Rendering him helpless in combat, Kamille would soon retire and be taken care of by his childhood friend Fa Yuiry. And while he never returned to combat after that incident, the impact he left on the tides of war in the Gundam Universe cannot be understated.

Zeta Gundam

  • Height: 19.85 meters

  • Weight: 28.7 metric tons

  • Length (Wave Rider): 24.32 meters

  • Wingspan (Wave Rider): 18.61 meters

  • Power source: Minovsky Ultracompact Fusion Generator

  • Armor: Gundarium γ Alloy



Being Kamille’s second suit after the Gundam MK. II, the MSZ-006 Zeta Gundam is an improvement in many ways over the original RX-78-2 Gundam that was built during the One Year War against Zeon. The main revolution to it is its ability to transform from a robot to a ship, something found in most Gundams from this point forward. This form, titled the “Wave Rider” form, would allow the Gundam to travel at speeds never seen before, enter and exit the atmosphere without the need of additional equipment, and become a much harder target for enemies to approach. The robot itself would be equipped with an array of new, more effective weapons for combat and would be a major imprint on Gundam engineering from that point forward.


Hikaru Ichijyo


  • Age: 16-19 (2009-2012 during the original anime series)

  • First Liutenant at the United Nations Spacy

  • Leader of the Skull Squadron

  • His name is not Rick Hunter, shut up


Hikaru Ichijo was once an ordinary Japanese boy that liked flying planes as a hobby in a world that would soon fall under attack by a deceptive alien race of giant humanoids known as the Zentradi during the inauguration ceremony of the new flying battleship built by the United Nations, the Super Dimension Fortress Macross. Encouraged by his mentor Roy Focker after he got , Hikaru would soon join the military and hop on a Valkyrie, joining the powerful Macross ship to confront the aliens in battle. Tragically for him it wouldn’t be long until Roy’s passing, which would leave a permanent scar on him forever, and force him to pick up his mecha, the VF-1S Valkyrie and take leadership of the Skull Squadron, a team of pilots dedicated to fighting the Zentradis head on.

War wasn’t the only thing blooming on the battlefield of space for him however, as on the Macross he would soon find himself between two love interests vying for his affection: Old friend and Idol singer Lynn Minmay, and Lieutenant Miya Hayase. Hikaru’s absolute misfortune, and Minmay’s cluelessness in the field of romance would alienate both of them, and make it impossible for him to pick up any of their very obvious hints, or for any of his to be picked up on. His fear of confronting his feelings outside of the worst possible moments would keep him from getting too close to them, and made for a major source of frustration for the audience.

Nevertheless, Hikaru pressed on in his battle against the Zentradi, losing a great subordinate, Hayao Kakizaki, in the process and obtaining battle memories he would never forget. His efforts were not for naught, however, as although the war against the Zentradi would press on he would eventually attain the title of captain, finally settle down with Misa and end up on good terms with Minmay, and even have a child. While he didn’t end the war, Hikaru’s unlikely heroism would forge an unending path for all the pilots after him to follow… just hopefully they’re better at romance next time.

VF-1S Valkyrie

  • Battroid Mode: height 14.1 meters; width 9.8 meters; length 4.8 meters

  • Fighter Mode: wingspan 14.78 meters (fully extended); height 5.5 meters; length 14.0 meters

  • GERWALK Mode: wingspan 14.78 meters (fully extended); height 10.36 meters; length 11.3 meters

  • Weight: empty 19.2 metric tons; standard equipment mass 45.0 metric tons

  • Power source: Thermonuclear reaction turbine engine 2x

  • Armor: space metal frame, SWAG energy conversion armor


The VF-1 Valkyrie is a series of mecha/aircraft that served as the centerpiece piloted weapon against the Zentradi aliens during the first Space War. It is a Variable Fighter, or a mecha with transforming capabilities, created with the alien technology recovered after the crash landing of the Macross on Earth in 1999.

The common characteristic of Valkyries is that they transform into 3 different modes: Battroid (humanoid form suited for ease in 3d combat), Fighter (the fighter plane mode suited for dogfights and bombings in formations) and Gerwalk (a hybrid form with hovering capabilities).

The Valkyries received numerous updated versions since their creation, with the most recent one Hikaru had access to being the VF-1S, inherited from his mentor and best friend Roy Fokker after his death. 

Like other Valkyries, the VF-1S is equipped with a thermonuclear engine that makes it able to fly at high speeds in space, an energy conversion armor that makes it tougher than tanks and countless reaction rockets that have devastating effects against enemy mecha and spaceships alike.

In the original anime TV series, Hikaru’s VF-1S looks exactly the same as Roy’s, with the yellow stripes. In the movie version, it is modified to have his signature red details instead and slightly different equipment.



Skill and Experience

Kamille Bidan

Kamille was previously just a normal, if athletic, teenager. His intelligence was above average, as evident by his talent for mechanics, as he helped develop the Zeta Gundam himself. When he got into a Mobile Suit for the first time, he immediately got the gist of it , showcasing how much of a fast learner he is.

He was noted to have particularly powerful Newtype Abilities and potential for growth, as evident by legendary ace Amuro Ray saying Kamille had more potential than himself.

The Zeta pilot battled alongside and against notably talented Mobile Suit pilots such as Amuro Ray, Haman Karn, Yazan Gable and Char Az- Quattro Bajeena.

The Gryps conflict lasted for an entire year.






Hikaru Ichijo

Hikaru always had talent for flying, being taught by his deceased father and his best friend and older brother figure Roy Fokker, ace pilot of the previous unification war on Earth. After officially enlisting to the U.N Spacy, Hikaru was put through rigorous combat training and would soon prove his talent in the battlefield.

Before his military career, Hikaru won the amateur pilot prize 7 times [09:07]. 

After continuous victories and feats of heroism, Hikaru ascended rapidly in the military hierarchy, soon becoming leader of the Skull Squadron, previously led by Roy.

Hikaru was able to survive several battles in his trusty Valkyrie, and get out of many situations where he had to use the versatility of the mecha to get out of situations where he was completely surrounded by enemies. 

In the movie version, Hikaru was the one to deal the final blow to the Zentradi forces, dashing through their mothership and destroying their leader.

The first Space War lasted for 3 years.

Weapons, Equipment, and Abilities

Zeta Gundam

A.E.BLASH XB-G-35/Du.105 Beam Saber


The Gundam’s iconic sword, used for close combat. Despite its short range it can slice through robots like butter with its superheated energy blade. The Zeta’s beam saber has an output several times higher than the standard beam sabers of its time.


FF-XV-SH-609Z Shield

The Gundam’s reliable shield, capable of blocking beam saber attacks, blasts from enemy cannons, and direct hits from robots.


XBR-M87A2 Beam Rifle

The Zeta Gundam has a custom large beam rifle that shoots charged particles for ranged combat. Its barrel can emit a beam blade to serve as a bayonet. Beams in the Universal Century timeline of Gundam work as particle accelerator beams, firing at near-lightspeed velocities.


MU-86G 60mm Vulcan Gun

Kamille’s Gundam has two pistols mounted on the side of its head for close up easy shots on its foe[20:04]


2-Tube Grenade Launcher

.

Kamille has two homing grenades strapped to each arm on the Zeta Gundam, these are useful for ranged battle and following enemies from far away [18:00].


Anchor Wire

Kamille can trade out the grenades for anchor wires in his arm launchers. These are useful for immobilizing powerful enemies when his weaponry isn’t enough to take them out [18:20].


FXA-03M2 Hyper Mega Launcher

One of Kamille’s strongest weapons, the Hyper Mega Launcher is basically a portable battleship Mega Particle Launcher capable of making massive blasts that can dwarf entire mechs and blowing them up with ease [13:30]. Like Zeta’s normal beam rifle, it can also create a beam bayonet.


H-Baz-87-A*E/Ver.004 Hyper Bazooka

Taken from the Gundam Mk. II, the Zeta’s Hyper Bazooka fires rockets that can do tremendous damage, but only carry 8 rounds at a time.


Decoy Asteroids

Kamille’s Zeta Gundam can form inflatable decoy asteroids in space designed to trick enemies and manipulate the battlefield in his favor.


Newtype Powers

Newtypes in Gundam are evolved humans born in the space age that have advanced psychic and empathic abilities.

Kamille’s status as a Newtype allows him a plethora of potent psychic abilities such as:

VF-1S Valkyrie

GU-11 55mm Gatling Gun Pod

The GU-11 Gun Pod is the primary weapon for the VF-1 Valkyrie. It's a powerful gun that fires 55mm rounds at the muzzle velocity of 2000 m/s, making it more powerful than any rotary cannon on Earth, and has the ammo capacity for 200 rounds.


Mauler RÖV-20 anti-aircraft laser cannons

Small high temperature laser cannons mounted on the head of the Valkyrie.


AMM-1 Missiles

The standard multi-purpose missile for Valkyries, capable of destroying Zentradi mecha and causing huge explosions wherever they hit. The VF-1S has at least 12 of them.


Micro Missiles


Small, homing missiles that are usually fired in large salvos from the pods under the wings of Valkyries. The estimated count for how many a fully equipped Valkyrie would have is at least 72.


RMS-1 Anti-Ship Reaction Warhead

The most destructive part of the Valkyrie’s arsenal, these large nuclear warheads are capable of destroying battleships over 2 km in length. Valkyries have up to 6 of these.


FAST pack

An attachment to the Valkyrie that greatly augments its thrust and speed, and grants a greater weapon payload and ammunition, including:

  • Additional micro missile pods on the Valkyrie’s arms

  • Even more micro missiles on mounted pods over the wings

  • And in the film version, it even gets a double barreled laser cannon.



Forms

Zeta Gundam


Mobile Suit Mode

The Zeta’s standard form. Humanoid appendages and proportions allow for omnidirectional combat in space, and engaging in melee combat with its beam saber. 


Wave Rider Mode


In this transformation, the Zeta assumes a form similar to a spaceship, and is able to fly much faster and be more maneuverable in space. It's also used for atmospheric reentry and its point can be used to ram enemies.


Newtype Awakening

In this form, the Zeta glows with pink energy potentialized by its Bio-Sensor and is surrounded with a psychic force-field that can protect it from enemy attacks. With it, Kamille can also redirect the energy to his beam weapons, making his beam rifle much more powerful, and extending the length of his beam saber, along with its cutting power.


VF-1S Valkyrie


Battroid Mode

The standard humanoid operating mode for Valkyries. It allows for higher precision with its gun pod and engaging in close range combat when necessary.

GERWALK Mode

Acronym for Ground Effective Reinforcement of Winged Armament with Locomotive Knee-joint, the GERWALK is a hybrid form for Valkyries that combines the Battroid and Fighter modes, with characteristics from both. It can hover and is usually employed to play the role of an attack helicopter.


Fighter Mode

The standard mode for Valkyries, the mecha assumes the form of a heavily armed supersonic fighter plane. With its powerful engine, the Valkyrie can fly in space and engage in high speed dogfights.

Feats

Kamille Bidan

Overall


  • Rapidly became a top pilot of the AEUG.

  • Fought and defeated hundreds of Zaku units much stronger than the original wave of them.

  • Fought in the Gryps war and led them to victory against the Titans.

  • Impressed Amuro Ray with his rapid development.

  • Defeated Jerid Messa, the Psycho Gundam, Yazan Gable, and Paptimus Scirocco.

  • Eventually recovered from his mental trauma and settled down to a nice life with his partner Fa.


Power


Speed


Durability




Hikaru Ichijo

Overall


  • Won the Amateur Pilot Prize 7 times

  • Battled and defeated hundreds of Zentradi troopers.

  • Endured the loss of many of his comrades in battle.

  • Led the Skull Squadron after the loss of his mentor.

  • Annihilated the Zentradi mothership and defeated their leader.

Power


Speed

Durability

Scaling

Zeta Gundam

Amuro Ray

Kamille and Amuro have fought numerous times alongside each other during the Gryps conflict, with Amuro even saying that Kamille has more potential than himself, as such, it is believable that Kamille should be comparable in strength and speed to his mentor. Char once used his Newtype abilities and detected Kamille, thinking it was Amuro at first. The Zeta has a more powerful reactor and more durable armor than any Mobile Suit Amuro piloted up until Zeta Gundam, in addition to being able to cut through and shoot beams that destroy Mobile Suits made of Gundarium, making scaling to his feats justified, with an addition to the statement making it reasonable that Kamille would scale to Amuro’s own Newtype power, which was stated in Gundam Crossbones to be the greatest in the Universal Century Era.



Char Aznable/Quattro Bajeena

After the events of the original series, Char went into hiding and adopted the new name Quattro Bajeena, under which he mentored and fought alongside Kamille, and they even butted heads multiple times, as such, Kamille should be relative to Quattro during their time together.


Haman Karn

One of Kamille’s most fearsome enemies, Haman Karn is a menacing threat throughout the entire Gundam series. Kamille did battle with her in the anime and was shown to be comparable. Her suit never changes throughout the series, so feats performed by her should all scale back to Kamille. The fact Kamille’s own Newtype abilities have been compared to Amuro’s, who should be stronger than Haman, makes sense that Kamille would scale to her Newtype powers.



VF-1S Valkyrie

Zentradi Battlepods

The main enemies of the series, Hikaru frequently gets into scraps with all kinds of Zentradi machines, but mainly the Reguld battlepods. Valkyries can tag them and tank some of their cannon shots, making scaling to their speed and power justified. Notably, Hikaru blitzes multiple Battlepods in many occasions, leaving them no room to react.



Skull Squadron

Led by professional pilot Roy Focker, the Skull Squadron are crucial allies to Hikaru in the battle against the Zentradi, and they’re consistently displayed as comparable. Scaling to feats performed by other Valkyrie pilots is reasonable, as Hikaru pilots the exact same machines.



Zentradi Battleships

The VF-9S Valkyrie has anti-ship warheads capable of destroying Zentradi Battleships. It is worth noting that said anti-ship warheads cannot be tanked by any Valkyrie unit and likely are far above their physicals in sheer destructive output.



Weaknesses

Zeta Gundam

Despite his impressive competence as a pilot, Kamille has a tendency to be short-sighted and lose his temper in a fight, especially when up against an opponent he has an emotional investment. Some of his weapons are also too large to the point of being unwieldy, despite their tremendous strength.

VF-1S Valkyrie

Like his opponent, Hikaru isn’t invulnerable to losing his patience in a battle, prone to getting angry and irrational in fights. Also, unlike Gundam units, the Valkyrie’s cockpit is left exposed in the Gerwalk and Fighter modes, leaving Hikaru open for an attack.


BEFORE THE VERDICT


Lightspeed feats


You might have noticed that we put both combatants at relativistic speeds via scaling to feats of dodging beams. Usually in fiction, generic laser-looking beams are not assumed to be lightspeed unless they follow specific properties, or simply have statements supporting that they have the speed of light. Luckily, both Macross and Gundam have such statements.

Starting with Macross, beams fired by mechas such as the Tomahawk Destroids and Zentradi Battle pods  are described as “electrically charged particle beam” and “electron beam” respectively, supporting that they're particle beam weapons. Particle beams are a real concept, based around firing accelerated particles at near the speed of light. Furthermore, the Macross Chronicle book supports such speeds for beams, as it describes beams as “achieving sublight speeds”.

For Gundam, it's easy. Beams are also based on electromagnetically charged particle beams, as described in the Gundam 0079 setting notes, starting as battleship cannons and being miniaturized. The Gundam Century guidebook also describes the particle beams as near lightspeed.

You might have noticed the last scan implies Newtypes would aim-dodge beams with their precognitive abilities, but it's extremely obvious by Kamille’s beam dodging feats we listed that he dodges AFTER the beams are fired and in close proximity, making them consistent relativistic reaction feats. This is also something that other competent Newtype pilots are consistently capable of.

In conclusion, both pilots should scale to relativistic speeds in reactions.


Small Country Gundam?


It might come as a surprise for some, especially since Gundam is generally considered a pretty grounded series and pertaining to the “real robot” subgenre of militaristic mecha fiction.

Turns out space psychic magic bullshit exists in the form of Newtype powers, and such an outlandish concept leads to equally outlandish levels of powers.

Haman Karn, a Newtype that's not noted to be particularly that strong, can block the ZZ Gundam’s High Mega Cannon, a devastating weapon that's listed as having one fifth of the power of a Colony Laser. A notable colony laser of course is the Gryps 2 colony laser, which has been used to push Axis a notable distance, a feat calculated at 14.5 teratons of TNT with the ⅕ factor bringing it to around 3 teratons of TNT. 

Since Haman used her own Newtype energy to project a force field and block it, meaning her energy output should match the beam. Newtypes including Kamille himself can use their energy to amplify their attack power, by enhancing their beam weapons for example.

Kamille is noted by Amuro as being relative to him, and Amuro is declared the strongest newtype of all time, making Kamille scaling to Haman’s level of power justified, as explained in both of their scaling sections.

Note that Kamille would only scale in his pink newtype energy form, and not in base.

Verdict

Stats

Both robots are pretty grounded in their worlds, as they are amongst the first warriors in their respective universe. That said, both have a decent amount of impressive showings.

Kamille and Hikaru both have and scale to consistent feats of dodging particle cannon beams. Hikaru has better upscaling from such feats as he usually is shown to be considerably faster than battlepods, but Kamille has better direct feats in general. As such, it is reasonable to believe that they ought to be relative in speed. Hikaru, however, has an advantage in agility due to the Valkyrie’s showings against multiple opponents at the same time, using the 3 transformations to its advantage, something Kamille doesn't do with the same level of competence.

It’s when we begin to look at strength that the scales start to tip for Kamille. Kamille’s best scaling in base comes from Amuro Ray, who survived being caught in a Zaku explosion in a suit far inferior to the one Kamille has, and the Zeta can easily destroy suits made of the same material as the original Gundam. This puts his power and durability at solidly above 26 Megatons of TNT. In comparison, Hikaru’s best feat in base is blocking all of those Zentradi missiles at the same time, which only gets him to around 16.92 Kilotons in that form, far below the Zeta Gundam’s capabilities. That said, Hikaru’s anti-ship warheads FAR exceed both his and Kamille’s own power, being able to severely damage ships that can tank explosions that can reach 614 Gigatons of TNT, more than enough power to decimate the Zeta in its base form. Fortunately for Kamille, he has one major ace in the hole. His super form far exceeds his physical capabilities in base, and can be compared to other super Newtype forms seen later in the series. The most important one to compare his to is that of Haman Karn, who tanked Judau’s head beam, which is stated to be 1/5th the power of a colony laser. And within the context of Gundam, these colony lasers are no joke. Colony lasers are capable of outputting around 2.9 TERATONS of TNT, just solidly over the power output of Hikaru’s warheads.

In order for Hikaru to defeat Kamille in THIS form, he would have to fire and land all of his warheads at once and make sure all of them land to defeat him, and this is difficult when Kamille can keep up with him in speed. Kamille is consistently shown to be able to dodge barrages of missiles in several of his fights, and they are unlikely to be Hikaru’s first resort as those missiles aren’t designed for combat against other robots in the first place, not to mention the fact that Kamille’s precognition would make it easy for him to notice just how much damage said missiles would do to him were they launched. It is far more likely for Kamille to get up close and use his advantages in strength and melee to solidify his victory in comparison.

In short, Kamille’s ability to match Hikaru in speed should more often than not allow him to take the victory with his far superior strength and melee combat, especially in his super form. To recap their stats:


Zeta Gundam

Power (Base): 26 Megatons of TNT

Power (Super): 2.9 Teratons of TNT

Speed: 0.57c


VF-1S Valkyrie

Power (Physically): 16.92 Kilotons of TNT

Power (Warheads): 614 Gigatons of TNT

Speed: Upscaling 0.42c

Summary

Kamille Bidan

“KAMILLE IS A MAN’S NAME, AND I'M A MAN”


Advantages:

  • Stronger and more durable in base, far stronger in his super form.

  • Can match Hikaru in speed.

  • Precognition makes it hard for Hikaru to get a good hit in.

  • Newtype abilities overall are not something Hikaru has a good response to.

  • Much more capable of melee combat, helped by his sword. 


Disadvantages:

  • More situational ranged weapons that are easier to avoid.

  • Would likely not survive a hit from one of Hikaru’s anti-ship warheads.

  • Less versatility in forms

  • Not as experienced as a pilot

  • Women.

Hikaru Ichijo

“Skull one to Delta one: mission accomplished.”


Advantages:

  • Even in speed with Kamille.

  • Anti-ship warheads would instantly defeat Kamille.

  • More versatile forms.

  • His ranged weapons are more universally applicable and easier to use.

  • Better AoE and battlefield control.

  • More experienced as a pilot


Disadvantages:

  • Weaker than Kamille’s base, may not even be able to hurt him in super.

  • More vulnerable to an attack to his cockpit.

  • Practically helpless in CQC, as he has no defense from Kamille’s Beam Saber.

  • Has no response to most of Kamille’s Newtype abilities.

  • Women.

Conclusion

Hikaru is undoubtedly a legendary ace in mecha anime history, and certainly would win in a few scenarios thanks to his powerful anti-ship missiles, but the Zeta’s comparable speed, overwhelming power and durability, and extremely useful psychic abilities consistently ensure its victory against his Valkyrie. The winner is Kamille Bidan.


Tally

Team Kamille (5): Kaiser, Mau, Pickle, Rex, Marlon


Team Hikaru (2): Serge, Also Kaiser (I just really like Macross)



NEXT TIME

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